Hi there,

A great site this is, humorous and informative. The "Kiss Hank's Ass" story is a killer !

I've always thought of religious people as folks who are willing to shut down their sense of criticism in return for membership of a community, having their ass licked by a thousand angels in the afterlife, or all-too-easy peace of mind down here. Therefore, this site is a delight for the intellectually honest.

As a European, I'm only familiar with Mormons from their infamous door-to-door crap-selling. It doesn't happen that much over here, luckily. Jehovah's witnesses are by far the most common lunatics.

So I had a good laugh, but I must say that most Europeans can have a good laugh about the way Americans in general deal with religion in other aspects of life. When an American president does a speech for instance, and stately investigates the ceiling of the press room for those five last words: "... and may God bless America."
Two dumb things in one: patriotism and religion ... I think that never ever gets any less funny and stupid. Reminds me of the Pope on his balcony. If any president, prime minister or even king would ever do that here, he'd be the laughing stock and scapegoat of the entire country for weeks (except for a minority of hardcore traditional Catholics and protestants). There would be questions, complaints and cries of scandal about it, in parliament and at Supreme-Court-level. Guaranteed.

Personally, I think the reason why so many people get so easily influenced is that most people do not have a proper view of the world and the universe anymore. Science has always been attacked by religious forces, or at least they seriously clashed. It helped plummet the image of science.

I'm by no means a b&w positivist, but I am convinced that science, in the definition of Karl Popper, is the only tool available to expand our knowledge in a intellectually honest and independent way. It does not claim to have answers for everything and will always remain a human-built model, but at least it offers every human a way to try and come to similar conclusions about universal things. Its direction is kosmos, while the effect of all religions together has always been chaos.

Viva individuals,
Silver

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I'm pleased when people challenge you to post their comments and you do. I was once like this guy in many respects. He caught you in a few of your inventions. Nevertheless, some replies you might consider are the following:

--Mormons used to treat blacks as if they were inferior. Some of us Mormons still do. Any claims to the contrary is mere white washing.
                                                What is this about?
--Why do you think it's impossible for spaceships to travel between domains of different Gods? Light and charged particles successfully do so. Do you think Elohim is only God of our Galaxy, Local Group, Supercluster, or what? If lots of His brothers are also Gods, what are their domains? Where will you be God when you get to that point?

--If you don't think Gonhorra or Kakistocra are names of Mothers in Heaven, what do you think her name is? Don't tell me we don't know because it's not necessary for our salvation. The name of the brother of Jared has been revealed, and that's not necessary for our salvation either. If knowing Mother in Heaven's name isn't necessary then knowing Father in Heaven's name isn't either.

Keep up the good work.
John.

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hey, loved your site.

one problem i have with Mormonism that i realized as i was on a mormon
mission (now safely home) is how Mormons are allowed to drink beer --
but they don't even know it!! In D&C 89 where it describes the godly
uses for grains.. it states that mild drinks made from grains
(paraphrasing here) are good .. i.e., beer. I'm glad god left the beer
part out of that revelation. too bad the Mormons don't know it.

> KRP wrote:
> Cool. BTW, did you write to the people you converted to apologize for
> converting them? :)


not really.. i went to the MTC and then spent 5 months in Russia.. by the
time i left, i was just getting to the point where i could actually 'make
a difference' (ruin) in someone's life with the language. I thought about
writing to a girl that we taught anyway, but she never really believed
what we told her. :)

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Photo Courtesy http://www.mrm.org/photo-album.html LINK:   [1931 Version ]

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 Subject: Re: got a chuckle today - nowscape.com/mormon/mormcr1b.htm#Handshake_pics Just wanted to thank you for the chuckle today. It was so funny that I told my entire e-mail list group about it. What happened is, I clicked a link on another web site and was taken to your page on the temple ceremony. At first, I was a little upset about it, as we hold the temple ceremony sacred and not to be discussed in detail outside of the walls of the temple. It was then that several things about the photos caught my eye. I had been to the temple long before the changes in April 1990 [1990 Version] and afterward, It might also interest you--or not--to know that I am a Master Mason. At any rate, you might want to know that the penalties are wrong (the positioning of the arms is quite a bit off as they were NEVER crossed during the execution of the old penalties), the tokens are wrong (wrong fingers used), and the older gentleman on the right is wearing a LADIES' apron (at least that's what the tag says on that type of apron)! Heheh. Thanks again. In context, you're a rather funny guy. :-) P.S.: Please don't 'xpect me to tell you how it's all really done.  You won't get a reply. :-) [name withheld], 32°, K.T.  Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed Nomini tuo da gloriam.

---

From: Khaos
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002
Subject: Mormon information

Thank you for all this information. It is very strange that people would
believe all this stuff.

I think they tend to target the less educated people in general. Now they
are focussing on South America and the Pacific Islands.

They use the hook of moral and family values to bring someone in. They also
seem to have all the answers too. So long as you believe and follow. They
don't go into the weird ideas until later when the person is already deep
in.

I wish there were people going around telling the populace about the Mormon
religion to counter what the missionaries are telling them. It makes me sick
that the Mormons are going around to the impoverished, backwards countries
and create a market for their racist religion and make their tithe income
from them. It's sad what this American religion is doing. Once again the
slick con artists in their nice suits are raping the poor people of this
world and preying on their ignorance.

Why doesn't someone legislate against them? Maybe remove this tax-free
concession for religious bodies.

I am well-informed I think but even these people are past-masters at the
pushy salesmen technique when it comes down to it: how can you argue against
belief? Yes, i respect a person's belief but these Mormons patently don't.
They coerce the belief on to you. They really are the best at getting "yes"
from the "customer". They know how to make you feel bad, ignorant or sinful
if you don't go with them. If you get angry with them and tell them they
have no right to do what they're doing they politely act so smug.

Of course this reasonable outward face drops when they encounter someone who
knows about their religion, usually an ex-Mormon, then it's insults,
innuendoes and outright attacks on the person's character. Why? Because
they're on the defensive. They know the ex-Mormon has got weapons to hurt
them.

I am not a Mormon but never have been but I think people should warn others
about what they're getting into, because it seems like getting out is a big
problem. There is a big psychological fallout when somebody does: shunning
for example.

Tania.

Thank you for your nice letter, Tania. Of course, Mormonism is different only in detail from other religions.  Legislating against religion is probably not an idea that will work in the US, because of the separation of state and church, supposedly guaranteed by the US constitution. The state is supposed to be neural on the issue of religion. Of course, this neutrality is violated, when the sate gives tax exemptions to the church. I think your idea of taxing religious bodies is constitutional and should be done. (After all, only a fool would have a false religion.)

---

My friend who owns a coffee shop said 2 Mormon missionaries used to stop at his shop and goof off for hours there instead of doing their door-knocking. I remember they came on pretty strong at the campus when I went to uni. They were really fanatical and I would argue with them about creationism.
That Kiss Hank site is so accurate. They put in things like family values, not drinking caffeine to reel them in, like who doesn't agree with these things?
Everyone has a glazed look about them like cult followers do. So do other religious people, especially the born-again Christians and other
fundamentalists, but the Catholic people and the other religions less so.
It's amazing that you were a missionary, weren't you, and now you run an anti-Mormon site.
That Joseph Smith story is so absurd, it smelt fraud outright to me. It's ridiculous anyone would be taken in by this conman. But if you were born into Mormonism you are taught not to question anything.
The anti-Mormon sites gave me a good laugh actually. I am going to send the link to my friend as it is a really funny site.
Tania

---

Sent: March 06, 2002

Hey, just dropping a line to say that I appreciate the tremendous amount
of time that must have gone into this massive website over the years.
Links everywhere and very well edited too. It's hilarious and
informative too! You've inspired me to (try to) read the book of
mormon just so I can make sense of what you're saying in some places,
and laugh more.

Please, though, come clean: do you fabricate at least some of the
inane responses you get? Some of the mails in both the for and against
categories read like idiots or eight-year-olds wrote them. I only wish
you would put a year-received note on the dates of the e-mails you get,
that's all- just for curiosity's sake. (This one is 3/6/02, readers)

Put me down in the "loved it" category- I'm sure I'll be perusing this
site for months!

Nowscape for a webby!

-Tim

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Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002

On one of the internet sites there were three pictures of JS as the church has depicted him over the years. One of them is on your website and I have printed it out. The other two show him in the evolutionary process of finally looking like the boy next door as in the LDS video '"Legacy." Do you have these other two pictures so I can show them to my sister?

---

From: Pagmatic [mailto:pagmatic@onelesssock.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002
Subject: mormania

Hi,
Your site's great- very informative, etc. A couple fans of my comic have asked why I'm not linked on your site, and I replied with "because". So, here I am asking if you'd link my comics; and in return, I'll link you as well-- or send cookies, etc.

My comic, Those Darn Mormons is at http://onelesssock.com/tdm/index.html ;has been up here and there since 1999. It's about two gay missionaries; a werewolf; and a black elder wanna-be that doesn't wear pants (see "cast"). The current comic is in the middle of a storyline, so it may not make sense; but there are 66 animated comics to look at (made in 1999) to view (see "archives"). There, that's my story. Now I can tell those fans I contacted you.

Regards,
Mike Paglia

---

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Johnson
Subject: Request for more information


Gentlemen,

I love your website!
But you have some things that I'd like sources cited. I'm currently working
on a Bible class dealing with Mormonism that I will begin at the end of the
month and would appreciate your help, please.

On your site you show a photo of stars with this text - "In late 1999,
Mormon astronomers at Brigham Young University, using the Hubble telescope,
obtained faint images of this star, which they tentatively named
Kakistocra-99b2." I have scoured the BYU website as well as other sites
looking for confirmation and/or support on this and have come up empty.
Where did you get this info?

Again - your website is one of the best I've seen on the LDS faith. Thanx
for your hard work!

DAVE :{)

---

> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 > Dear Cheryl,
> +--------------------------------------------------+
> Here is something you might like!
>
> http://nowscape.com/mormons1.htm
> Hi Cheryl, take alook at this...ha ha. secret temple handshakes,
> temple garments, negros are doomed, how to stop playing with your
> popsickles... if its mormon...you name it, its here...have
> fun.....Bye for now.
> +--------------------------------------------------+

---

Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002
Subject: thanks


love your site. i am an ex, looking forward to the day they find out
about my fornications and libations and cast me out thusly. keep up the
good work.

---

From: Glenn Evans [mailto:glenn@irr.org]
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 1:09 PM
Subject: Elder O. Lamar LaVerkin, March 1964, Improvement Era.


To Whom It May Concern:



The following quote was taken from your website: From: Glenn Evans [mailto:glenn@irr.org]
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 1:09 PM
Subject: Elder O. Lamar LaVerkin, March 1964, Improvement Era.


To Whom It May Concern:



The following quote was taken from your website: http://nowscape.com/mormon/perfect_B.htm



We believe that Egyptian funerary documents contain encrypted messages.
They have been translated -- correctly -- by use of seer stones, such as the Urim and Thumim.
-- Elder O. Lamar LaVerkin, March 1964, Improvement Era.



I don’t think the above quote is right, at least not the date. The papyri were not rediscovered till 1967, and The Improvement Era, March 1964 lists no articles by Elder LaVerkin, and nothing on the Book of Abraham. Any comment from the LDS Church leaders about the correct translation of the papyri prior to 1967 would be of great interest.



Perhaps the statement was made, but this is just a mistake with the date of The Improvement Era. If the statement was made I would be interested in a citation.



Thank you,

Glenn A. Evans

Research and Counseling Associate

INSTITUTE FOR RELIGIOUS RESEARCH

1340 Monroe Avenue N. W.

Grand Rapids, MI 49505

Phone: (616) 451-4562

Fax: (616) 451-8907

Email: Glenn@irr.org

Internet: www.irr.org





We believe that Egyptian funerary documents contain encrypted messages.
They have been translated -- correctly -- by use of seer stones, such as the Urim and Thumim.
-- Elder O. Lamar LaVerkin, March 1964, Improvement Era.



I don’t think the above quote is right, at least not the date. The papyri were not rediscovered till 1967, and The Improvement Era, March 1964 lists no articles by Elder LaVerkin, and nothing on the Book of Abraham. Any comment from the LDS Church leaders about the correct translation of the papyri prior to 1967 would be of great interest.



Perhaps the statement was made, but this is just a mistake with the date of The Improvement Era. If the statement was made I would be interested in a citation.



Thank you,

Glenn A. Evans

Research and Counseling Associate
INSTITUTE FOR RELIGIOUS RESEARCH
1340 Monroe Avenue N. W.
Grand Rapids, MI 49505
Internet: www.irr.org

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-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Munson
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002
Subject: If You Could Hie to Kolob

I reckon that leaders of many wards are anxious about what potential
converts will think if this hymn is sung in meetings--maybe that's why it
has fallen into disfavor. However, the last ward I attended before leaving
the Church had music personnel who much loved the music for this hymn,
therefore we sang it regularly enough. This is pure speculation, but I
wonder if the hymn setting currently used, which is adapted from Vaughn
Williams' Variants on Dives and Lazarus*, which may still be under
copyright, isn't there in midi format because of legal restrictions? Well,
that might work for explaining the absence of a midi file but doesn't
explain why they don't list the words there (and we already know the likely
reason for that).

*Looking at the version of the hymn you have shown on
http://nowscape.com/mormon/kolob-hi.htm I see that it uses an uninteresting
musical setting, much inferior to the current one. Anyway, I understand
that the original tune used for the current Kolob hymn setting is common to
a number of traditional folk songs, such as "The Unquiet Grave" and "Star of
the County Down," all of which have poetic, wistful and humanly-resonant
lyrics, in stark contrast to W.W. Phelps' sterile verses. I have heard a
couple of beautiful versions of these old folk songs, and these have helped
to purge the music of its mystical Mormon associations that it used to have
for me! Now I think of charming young maidens, and pining after lost love,
instead of Kolob and pseudocosmology, and believe me when I say it's a vast
improvement.

Christopher Munson

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-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002
Subject: mormons and Kolob


First of all I wanted to tell you that I am Mormon & I really like your site. If you could hie to Kolob is one of my favorite songs, although the version I'm used to is a little different. The words are the same (from what I can see) but the music is different. This song is still sung in church & to my knowledge there is no controversy about it. I have never heard any doctrine against space travel, nor do I find it unusual that some people would lip-sinq a song (I would lean more towards - dude knows he can't sing but wants to participate). This song is still found in the Mormon hymn book, there is no coverup or conspiracy. The bass line in our version is very difficult so that might be one reason it isn't one of the more common hymns sung, but I do hear it. With over 300 it's difficult to give many a lot of exposure.

Thanks & have a great day,

Brian

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-----Original Message-----
Subject: tons of information!


I came across your website when I was looking to know more about the Amish... I am a Mormon and I have to congratulate you. You have worked hard. You and those who helped, have spent a lot of time on this. I have a terrible time finishing anything I start. Therefore, you have to be commended.

As to be expected, I do not agree with some of the stuff you have placed on the internet, but heck, that's the beauty of this wonderful country that God gave us, that of free speech. God Bless America!!

Y. Williams

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-----Original Message-----
Subject: what the?


moon men? is this really in mormonism? my god. what the hell is this crap?

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